Posts by Shining One

26

How do I get my "lesbian" co-worker to stop discussing her lifestyle?

by booker-t in

i work with a young woman in her mid-thirties that is openly lesbian.

we have been friends for about 10 years when she first started working at the company.

i was crazy about her before she came out as "gay" and i still have a good time working with her.

Shining One

What she is doing can be classified as sexual harrasment. You don't have to listen to any type of conversation about sexual matters.
Rex

20

Why Did Adam & Eve Need An Immune System???

by enlightenedcynic in

here is a question i would like answered intelligently if possible.

i asked my wife and another brother during an informal gathering of friends and was given the typical "wait till the new system, jehovah will answer all questions" response.

for the last year or so i began to seriously doubt the existence of a "loving, caring god".

Are You A Born Again Christian Now? If so...

by Mistah MOJO in

if so, are you (pick any and all questions that interest you, ignore the others):.

trinitarian or modalist?

(oneness)?.

Hi LT,
Limited atonement: There are too many 'alls' and 'whosoevers' to explain away. For instance, if I follow the Calvinist's argument the word 'all' in context would mean, 'all of the saints, or the elect' and the 'whosoevers' are dealt with the same way using hermeneutic interpretation of context in relation to all relevant scriptures.
* John 1:29b: "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
* John 3:16-17: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him."
* 2 Corinthians 5:14-15: "For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised."
* 1 Timothy 2:5-6: "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time."
* 1 Timothy 4:10: "For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."
* Titus 2:11 - "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people."
* 1 John 2:2: "He [Christ] is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world."
I struggle with this and at times have agred with the Calvanist position. I do know that there is some tension here, as a Biblicist, I hold both the providence of God and the responsibility of man in harmony. I see a lot of what Spurgeon reasons on the subject.
A good counter-point is by Ron Rhodes in this article:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Atonement.html
God Bless,
Rex

44

Are You A Born Again Christian Now? If so...

by Mistah MOJO in

if so, are you (pick any and all questions that interest you, ignore the others):.

trinitarian or modalist?

(oneness)?.

Shining One

>If so, are you (pick any and all questions that interest you, ignore the others):

Trinitarian or Modalist? (Oneness)?

Trinitarian

>Covenant theology or dispensational? Or something else?

Neither, pan-millenialist: " it will all 'pan out' in the end!" LOL

>Premillennial, Amillennial. Postmillennial or Panmillennial? (Panmillennial: "It will all pan out in the end.")

See the above..

>Pretrib, Midtrib, Postrib?

Concerning the rapture? See the above!

>Futurist or Preterist?

Partial preterist, full preterism is a heresy (no second coming).

>Eternal Torment, Annihilation, or eventual (not immediate) Universal Reconciliation?

Eternal separation from God. If you don't believe in Him nor want to be with Him you will get your wish..eternally.

>Baptized as an infant or as an adult?

Baptism only happens after the acceptance of grace in the 1st century church.

>Sprinkled, poured, or immersed?

Total immersion.

>In the name of Father-Son-Holy Spirit or the Lord Jesus Christ?

All three.

>Liturgical and Sacramental or Nonliturgical and Nonsacramental?

I enjoy many styles of services from the aspect of a believer.

>Pentecostal, Neo-Pentecostal (Charismatic), or Non-Pentecostal?

Non. I have seen enough of gibbering idiots laughing, barking, pew hopping and babbling incoherently. There are very Biblcal pentecostal churches (see 1 Cor. 14).

>Is Communion the Body and Blood of Christ, or a sign or symbol?

Symbolic

>Does God still heal and perform miracles?

God does all healing even that done through medicine. Yes, He is still in the 'miracle business': every time someone comes to faith it is a miracle of death to life.

>Is the Holy Spirit a retired author or an active divine Person?

He is very much a person. That is clear from scripture.

>Is your pastor "anointed" (Which means "Christed")

That is a personal opinion and may or may not apply.

>Are YOU anointed? (Christed)

I am anointed to preach the gospel in the pulpit. I am not any better than anyone else who believes or doesn't.

>Do you have visions? Do you hear God audibly?

No I don't to both questions.

>Have you had a miracle (inexplicable supernatural occurrence) in your life?

See the above: my spirit has been quickened.

>Do you consider yourself free now, or that you've exchanged a small cage for your mind and spirit (JWs) for a much larger cage?

We all live within boundaries of the physical realm. I am no longer a slave to sin but a slave to Christ, my savior and Lord.

>Do you study the Bible or rely on someone else to explain it to you?

We are all taught by the Holy Spirit through the dispensation of spiritual gifts, the discipling of others. My most important activity is to study the scripture and mediate on what I have read while praying. If I come up with some cockeyed idea that doesn't line up with the context of scripture then I restudy the passage.

>Is the Bible inerrant and infallible in the "original languages and manuscripts"? Is it plenarily (fully) inspired right down to the actual words or just inspired in a general way?

The question above is a moot point. Scripture is inspired of God and infallible. Inerrancy cannot be proved nor is necessary for belief.

>Are works necessary for salvation? (Ethics, morals, actually obeying Christ's commands) Or are works not neccessary, just a nice idea and something to shoot for when you're in a good mood? Or are they "the necessary FRUIT of GENUINE conversion"?

I'll take 'door number three'. I am saved by grace and not works...

>Who would you most identify with of these three choices? Luther, Calvin, or Zwingli?

None of the above though Calvin makes sense with the five points from a standpoint of logic. 'Linited atonement' is not valid in my view.

>Do you believe in free will? Or predestination?Eternal security?

One must hold both the responsibility of man and the providence of God equally. On the next question: we are not saved by our own actions therefore we are saved by grace. God even gives us the faith to believe. True Saints will persevere to the end.

>Creationism aka Intelligent Design? Theistic evolution?

Creationism is the only valid reading of Genesis in my view.

>Dominion Theology aka Christian Reconstructionism?

No

>Is your Christology Chalcedonian, Nestorian, Apllonarian, Arian? Something else?(Please do not respond "biblical" as that means nothing. All the aforementioned views are "bible based.")

I object, none of the above with the exception of Chalce are free of contradictions.

>Pacifist or Just War? (Do you turn the other cheek or kick ass?)

Logical error, the two choices are not the only valid views. Generally I believe there is a 'Just War' that extrapolates from 'love thy neighbor' as a basis.

>Is Jesus: God Almighty, the Eternal Logos, the second Person of the Holy Trinity?

You got it!

>The first and only direct creation by Yahweh, thru whom everything else was created?

Heresy

>The archangel Michael?

Luther accepted this as a 'morphism' similar to the 'angel of the Lord' of the O.T.

>An emanation of God?

No

>A mode of existence which the Father has taken upon himself?

No

>Would you agree or disagree that the resurrected Christ is "fully God and fully Man, one OUSIA (essence) in two Natures simultaneously"?

Yes

>Or do you not concern yourself with these things and Jesus is your Divine Friend? Or...

The Jesus is my buddy thing? LOL

>Will Jesus return visibly, bodily, literally? Or...

The Olivet discourse dealt with the symbolic apocalypse judgement. That happened in 70 AD. He will return at some future date, end of the world as we know it!

>Does it concern you that Christians and Christianity are divided on every conceivable issue and often at war with each otherm both literally and figuratively?

Not at all. Wheat and tares grow together and so it has always bee. The 'body of Christ' is a sp[iritual reality and too much is made of the 'grey issues' not involving the nature of God or salvation.

>Are Jews "God's chosen people?" If so, would you consider converting to Judaism? If not, why not, if they are God's chosen people?

See the 'grafted branches' explanations of Jesus and Paul.

>Is Bible prophecy being fulfilled in the Middle East?

No. Israel has not returned, in the land, as a theocracy.

>Will the Rapture occur soon? Time estimate in years or decades:

It is irrelevant, We will all meet our maker at some point.

>Are we on the verge of Armageddon?

Who knows? We are only to do the will of God as best we can each day.

>Will "the Antichrist" claim to be JESUS or claim to be THE CHRIST? (The One specially Anointed by God)

See the above.

>Does anyone today, on TV or other media, or in your church, claim to be "God's Anointed Messenger for these last days"? Is that not not an antichrist-like claim? If not, why not? If so, why so?

No, it they did so I would again be in a cult.

>Are demons/evil spirits real? How about "angels"? Or are these "beings" archetypal/psychological in nature?

Very, very real.

>Is disease caused by microbes/viruses or evil spirits? Or both? If both, explain.

I opt for the scientific here. I suspect that our psyche can be affected by outside influences and we all know that the mind can cause illness.

>Should we seek medical help or seek divine healing by faith alone? Or a combination?

Prayer and medicine work together in every way.

>Is Science "out to destroy faith"?

Science is limited to the physical realm and can never destroy faith by ruling out the supernatural. Science can often be taken either way in the matters of creationism/naturalism. Some scientists are motivated by their naturalism just as some are by their faith.

>Are atheists evil?

Not in general. They just have nowhere to go when they die!!! LOL

>Are scientists "tools of the Devil?"?

Another individual option.

>Are Theists more moral, more ethical, better behaved than atheists? If yes, do you have any stats to support this? If no, do you have any stats?

I have no idea.

>Do you engage in a prison/jail ministry? If so, what percenttage of inmates were "born again" BEFORE being incarcerated?

No, and I don't know. I do know that those who leave through Christian fellowship ministries stay out of prison to the tune on 90 plus percent.

>Should an inmate go free when they are "born again" and therefore have " a clean slate with God"?

No. The state bears the sword for a purpose. Did you know that David Berkowitz (Son of Sam) has been in ministry for twenty years and has asked to never be pardoned because it would cause his victims families too much heartache?

>Is God against abortion? If yes, why did Jehovah kill unborn babies, having them ripped from their mothers wombs and dasehd aginst stones?

God says we are not to murder. The situation you describe is from Hosea and it is a warning of judgement. I don't know that this actually occurred. It is amazing to me that we have a society that destroys the most defensless individuals amongst us and the same people who support it are very lax on their views of punishing the brutes who kill, rape and molest.

>If God is against abortion, is there a Bible verse or verse to supoort this? Book__________ Chapter ____________ Verse________________

See the above....

>If God is NOT against abortion, are you? if so, why?

See the above....

>Will the unsaved be: Thrown into Hellfire; Annihilated;Eventually reconciled to God and saved?

Eternally separated from God.

>Are there ghosts? Have you seen, felt, or heard a ghost?

No, no.

>Please feel free to add any other questions or content that I've overlooked. Thank you!

That's quite enough!

Rex

14

The Bible is NOT the word of God

by sinis in

after reflecting on the article i have come to the conclusion of the author as well, in that the bible is not the word of almighty god.

perhaps some tribal demi-god but not god almighty.

good read:.

Shining One

The Article:
This God that ignorance found, or formed, looks a great deal like a man. They tell us it has a face, hands, bowels, a foot (maybe two). They tell us it has nostrils and likes to smell the burnt offerings upon the primitive altar.

[NOTES: Face: Ex. 33:11,20,23; Num. 14:15. Hands: Ps. 28:5. Bowels: Jer. 31:20. Foot: Is. 37:25. Maybe two feet: Ps. 18:9. Nostrils: 2 Sam. 22:9,16. Smell burnt offerings: Gen. 8:2]

Reply:
These are examples of anthropomorphism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism

The Article:
This God, that ignorance found or formed, also has remarkably human desires and emotions. It hates, it loves, it feels anger and it feels compassion. It has favorite individuals, and a chosen people. This God is definitely of the male sex, and has definite male tendencies. It is often angry, easily enraged, swears, destroys things, pouts, shouts, deceives, and often rests. Any wife would recognize God.

[NOTES: Hates: Mal. 1-2,3, Rom. 9:11-13. Love: Deut. 7:13. Anger: Ex. 4:14. Compassion: Ps. 111:4. Favorite: Ex. 3:21. Chosen people: Is. 44:2. Angry: Deut. 9:20, 1 Kin. 11:9, etc. Enraged: 1 Sam. 6:19. Swears: Gen. 12:3. Destroys things: Gen. 6:17. Pouts: Ex. 32:9-10. Shouts: Ps. 47:5. Deceives: Jer. 20:7. Rests: Gen. 2:2]

Reply:
This oaf is plodding through the usual raft of objections to God. The text of scripture is clear that man is a being formed in the image of God. When one compares the God of the Bible to the greek myths there is a stark contast that shows clearly the difference between myth and fact.

The article:
This God that was found by a primitive and ignorant people some thousands of years ago, just happened to have the same world outlook, and the same beliefs about nature as the people who found him.

Reply:
This God has some obvious differences as does scripture to other ancient writings. One of them is that the faults of the hebrews and their heroes and defeats are bared for the world to see. The other ancient writings leave out defeats of the nation and the faults of the leaders, promoting them to deity in some cases

The article:
This God thought the sun revolved around the earth,

Patently untrue and in much dispute even amongst scholars. The magi of the 'fertile crescent' very much understood the relation of the earth to the sun. What this oaf is doing is repeating a lie that has been told since it was imagined in the 1800's. This is the so-called flat earth idea that the enlightened idiots used to denigrate the Church.

The article:
and that a day could be made longer by simply stopping the sun for a while.

Reply:
Another example of giving a human viewpoint to a God-miracle

The article:
It is truly amazing, the number of similarities there are between the beliefs of God, and the beliefs of the people who discovered God.

Reply:
Duhhhh, what would you expect from a people who worshipped God? Oh btw, the Israelites were persistent in their pagan practices as well so this point is invalid, misleading and misguided.

There is not much sense in wasting time on the rest of it. You will find plenty of reasons not to believe because that is what you are looking for. Your axioms are in control of your conclusions and they are foregone conclusions! The proof of the naive and easily convinced characteristics of ex-dubs is again evident.

Rex

40

Are the "Last Days" an Absurdity? (8/15 WT)

by metatron in

how could anyone know objectively if they live in the "last days", if they fail to examine history?

how would anyone know if things were .

actually worse?

Shining One

>Personally, I thought this a rather delightful time to be alive!

Do you think the poor and forgotten people of the world would agree? That's an easy statement that any of us could make. We live in the lap of luxury due to being born into nations that are advanced beyond any in history. Man is wretched and full of every evil that we can imagine. Man will not and has never been noble or righteous of himself, merely self-righteous. The 'age of enlightenment' resulted in a number of variations of human government based on the idea that man is inherently good and all you need to do is find the right system for his (good) nature to be revealed. Odd isn't it, that countries with laws built upon Biblcal morals are the ones where the greatest freedoms and wealth exist?
Rex

14

God and Protection

by Norm in

it is little wonder that many ask, why does god allow such suffering?

comfort for those who suffer.

Shining One

Uh Norm,
How do you even get out of bed in the morning? I have never seen you post anything except rants about 'how bad everything is because God is bad and dpesn't do things the way Norm would.'
>We can only give life meaning by behaving as ethical and moral beings, helping each other and cooperate with each other. We don’t need a fantasy, a God to do that, we don’t have to bullshit our self
How do you arrive at what constitutes 'ethical behavior'? Would it hinge on your own idea of 'ethical behavior' or someone elses, say and Imam over in Iran? Or, how about an abortionist or a Hindu who believes in the caste system of human worth? Where does the standard come from and who sets it? If there is no God then there are no viable ethics or morals, everything is relative, and that is the logical delimna that you are in right now.
The Bible has a simple and clear explanation for why mankind is in such dire straits: man wants to rule himself and ignore the simple fact that creation needs to obey the Creator. Why should he do so? Because the Creator knows man inside and out in perfect completeness. God did indeed bear the wrath of sin Himself in Jesus Christ. He has offered grace and mercy instead of judgement. God did not create puppets or automatons. He created persons that He could have a relationship with. He did so knowing that man could and would choose to rebel. He offers a clear choice for us in this world or the next: life eternal with Him or life eternal without Him. Suffering happens because man has chosen that path. God made that path right and straight. If you could look past your bitterness you might just be able to see the Lord reaching out to you.
Nothing and no one can touch me, nor the love for God and from God. That is why Christians perservere to the final breath.
Rex

3

Amazing Bill Hicks Quote Regarding Belief Systems...

by FMZ in

he singles out christianity, but so many belief systems have the same problem...

"christianity has a built-in defense system: anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of satan by the very fact that it makes you question a belief.

it's a very interesting defense mechanism, and the only way to get by it and believe me, i was raised southern baptist is to take massive amounts of mushrooms, sit in a field and just go, 'show me.'".

Shining One

FMZ,
Your boy Bill has never tried to debate Greg Koukl, Hank Hannegraf, Josh McDowell or Ravi Zakaria....SBC pastors are often not even fully seminary trained, especially in little churches in rural areas. Just because he thinks he got the better of Pastor Bubba Jones doesn't mean he is any great thinker!
Rex

27

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on 60 Minutes last night

by Jourles in

did anyone else watch the interview of mahmoud ahmadinejad(iran's president) on 60 minutes last night?

i thought his answers were both clever and honest.

it's funny i never heard about the letter he sent to bush three months ago.

Shining One

Hey Nark,
Are you really from France? I gotta admit that I have been surprised that the French government is not taking too much idiocy from the Islamists. Do you think it will take an army to stop them from taking over France, just like in the middle ages? If not, you better study up on Sharia Law. After all, you don't want to get 'caned' for watching soccer on tv!
Rex

Contrasting conversions

by Shining One in

former kkk terrorist cites c.s.

lewis faithful obedience .

by marilyn stewart .

Shining One

Former KKK terrorist cites C.S. Lewis’ faithful obedience
By Marilyn Stewart
Aug 9, 2006
Tom Tarrants
OXFORD, England (BP)--Once billed as “the most dangerous man in Mississippi,” former Ku Klux Klan member and terrorist Tom Tarrants became a Christian while in prison for attempted murder and now serves as president of the C.S. Lewis Institute in Washington, D.C.
Tarrants shared his testimony with a group of New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary faculty, students and friends as part of this summer’s study program at England’s Oxford University. The NOBTS program offers seminary course credit and the opportunity to study under evangelical thinkers in combination with visiting religious and historic sites in England and Scotland.
Born and raised in Mobile, Ala., during the years of racial segregation, Tarrants bitterly opposed the move toward racial equality in the 1960s, directing his hatred toward Jews, whom he believed were involved in a communist plot against America and whom he viewed as God’s enemies.
As a young man in his early 20s, Tarrants aligned himself with Sam Bowers, a man who was later convicted for his part in the murder of three civil rights workers in Philadelphia, Miss. -– the story fictionalized in the movie “Mississippi Burning.” The FBI referred to Bowers’ group, the White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, as the most violent right-wing terrorist group in the nation.
As an operative for the White Knights, Tarrants was involved in some 30 bombings of synagogues, churches and homes before being apprehended in an FBI sting operation in Meridian, Miss. In the ensuing shootout between Tarrants and law enforcement officers, Tarrants’ female accomplice was killed and he was shot 19 times, almost ending his life.
After months of recovery, Tarrants began a 30-year sentence in the Mississippi State Penitentiary at Parchman, one of the most volatile prisons in the nation at the time. He escaped shortly after being incarcerated but was apprehended in yet another shootout that took the life of another accomplice.
His only diversion from prison life was to retreat into reading. One day Tarrants picked up a Bible. The words of Jesus haunted him: “What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul?”
Although he had attended a Southern Baptist church as a child, Tarrants realized he was not a Christian and his life had been a contradiction to biblical teaching. Alone in his cell, Tarrants gave his broken life to Christ. He renounced his racism and hatred and committed his life in service to Christ and mankind.
The realization that he had only narrowly escaped death when he was apprehended convinced him that God had another purpose for his life. Later, Tarrants found out that the wife of an FBI agent involved in his capture had been praying for his salvation for years. After his conversion, the FBI agent and his wife, along with others who had been the targets of his hatred, were instrumental in securing his release after eight years in prison.
Tarrants then earned college and seminary degrees and served in various ministry positions, including a co-pastorate at the evangelical Christ our Shepherd Church in Washington, D.C.
Tarrants has authored the book, “The Conversion of a Klansman,” and coauthored “He’s My Brother” with African American evangelical leader John Perkins. Once a crusader for hate, Tarrants now, as president of the C.S. Lewis Institute, fills a role of educating and equipping those who, like Lewis, want to defend their faith and impact their world with truth.
C.S. Lewis, Tarrants said, was a radical disciple of Jesus who happened to be an Oxford don and a brilliantly gifted writer. Tarrants reminded the NOBTS group to give all to God -– both heart and mind. Tarrants told them Lewis believed “that true knowledge of God comes from obedience.”
“I was deeply encouraged to hear how a single biblical encounter broke through years of insincerity and hatred to transform a man’s life beyond recognition,” NOBTS student Jason Palmer said of Tarrants’ testimony.
Tarrants’ story resounded with the NOBTS group due to the school’s prison education efforts. NOBTS recently began an extension program for inmates at Parchman, the very place where Tarrants made his commitment to Christ. The program is similar to the highly successful NOBTS program at Louisiana State Penitentiary in Angola, La.

Now for the story on Islamic conversions....

Alarm as plotters told 'attack now'
Peter Wilson
August 12, 2006
"GO now!" The message came from Pakistan and it rattled the British intelligence agents who intercepted it.
The urgent direction was sent early this week to a group of young British Muslims who had been plotting one of the world's biggest-ever terrorist attacks.
Intelligence officials who had been monitoring the group thought they had plenty of time to keep watching them and gathering evidence before safely rounding them up early enough to stop them carrying out their scheme. But the message from radicals in Pakistan saying "do the attacks now" changed everything, and when it was passed to higher authorities in London on Wednesday night, it sent a jolt through the top levels of the British Government.
Prime Minister Tony Blair had jetted off on Monday for a holiday at pop star Cliff Richard's mansion in Barbados, believing that the long-running investigation of the terror plot was some time away from a climax.
As late as 8pm London time on Wednesday, when Blair called US President George W. Bush for an arranged discussion, he mentioned the investigation but still did not know that it had suddenly become urgent.
His Transport Minister, Douglas Alexander, who is responsible for British aviation, was on holiday in Scotland and even Andy Hayman, the assistant commissioner of police in charge of specialist operations, was enjoying the sun in Spain.
Hayman's deputy, Peter Clarke, was told late on Wednesday about the hurry-along message from Pakistan, which may have been prompted by the arrest of a co-conspirator in Pakistan, and decided the British suspects had to be arrested straight away.
By dawn on Thursday, all 24 known suspects had been grabbed in raids on houses in London, Birmingham and High Wycombe, and a mosque in Birmingham. They are mostly in their late teens and early 20s, the youngest 17 and the oldest 35. All are British citizens.
Many are well-educated and come from middle-class families who own businesses and property.
One is a biochemistry student, another the son of an architect, another the son of an accountant. Many are married with small children. Most are of Pakistani descent, like three of the four suicide bombers who killed 52 people on the London transport system 13 months ago, but two are white Muslim converts.
Abdul Waheed, 21, grew up as Don Stewart-Whyte, the hard-drinking, troublesome son of a full-time Conservative Party official. Six months ago, he changed his name, grew a beard, shaved his head, began wearing white robes and married an Arabic or south Asian Muslim wife. A salesman at an electrical store, he was arrested on Wednesday night when he drove into the driveway of the home he shares with his mother and wife in High Wycombe, north of London. A policeman hiding in wait leaped out and smashed the driver's window before dragging him from the vehicle. Another convert, 25-year-old east Londoner Oliver Savant, recently changed his first name to Ibrahim. His mother is of English descent and his father Iranian but neighbours said his father was "thoroughly Anglicised".
"He's just a normal Londoner," his brother Adam said yesterday. "His missus is six months pregnant. He loves football. He supports England and Arsenal." Like Waheed, Savant has recently grown a beard, shaved his head, taken to wearing robes and married a Muslim woman. Several of the other men arrested were described by their neighbours yesterday as devout family men with a strong interest in Islam, although several were described as being insular and withdrawn from their local communities.
There are various accounts of how the plot first came to the attention of British authorities.
The Washington Post quoted US officials as saying "the first whiff" had come after last year's July 7 suicide bombings in London, when a Muslim tipped off British authorities to the suspicious activities of an acquaintance.That first tip was vague but it led investigators to a well co-ordinated plot to bomb transatlantic flights, the paper said.

Incidental evidence? Of course it is and this is not mean't to be a universal though it is very, very typical.
Rex